Curse

HigherMinion · May 17, 2012, 04:12 AM // 04:12

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:E/A_Assas...e_Elementalist

trolololol. (on the brink of being trashed, again)

So, my question to you all: what else is there to run for an elementalist human if AP Air/Earth/Fire is all terrible/trash/outdated, etc.?

What makes Elemental Attunement fire better/worse for a human? (afaik, that's the only contender)

fyi, main reason to kill AP ele is:
1.AP can be replaced easily with AoS, Glyph of Renewal or 4040/EBSoW.
2.single-target damage blows since HM update.

Enjoy.

WarcryOfTruth · May 17, 2012, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:E/A_Assas...e_Elementalist

trolololol.

So, my question to you all: what else is there to run for an elementalist human if AP Air/Earth/Fire is all terrible/trash/outdated, etc.?

What makes Elemental Attunement fire better/worse for a human? (afaik, that's the only contender)

fyi, main reason to kill AP ele is:
1.AP can be replaced easily with AoS, Glyph of Renewal or 4040/EBSoW.
2.single-target damage blows since HM update.

Enjoy.

I laugh when I see that bar on any profession. So painfully weak.

On topic, you bring up a good point, although I prefer Glyph of Energy with Earth Magic skills. I can't cast as quickly as using the above that you mentioned, but I don't have to worry about exhaustion

Jeydra · May 17, 2012, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Why am I brought up so often on the talk page ... doing things I didn't actually do too (i.e. test non-AP non-ER Elementalist bars) ...

That said, the big reason I didn't test any non-AP non-ER bars was because I used pre-nerf Invoke Lightning while I was capping elites for Skill Hunter, and can see no reason to use that over AP in general. I can certainly still see no reason now. EA Fire brings the damage, but it really doesn't do anything else, and the same applies to Searing Flames / Savannah Heat builds. It doesn't help either that while I can't create anything more effective, nobody else has either - or if they have, they haven't posted it.

If anyone has more effective Elementalist builds (give all eight skills + spec), if necessary with appropriate heroes to go along, by all means post them.

Martin Firestorm · May 17, 2012, 03:08 PM // 15:08

That's the most ridiculous discussion I've ever seen. It's a great build imo. You can argue whether its just good or great, but disfavored? Someone at pvx has an agenda. And it's great for AoE. What makes anyone think its single target only? It does both.

AoS certainly is not a viable replacement for AP, even though it opens an elite slot. You can't count on the recharge. EA double attunement is a decent option but stil inferior. GoE plus earth skills is a fine build, but that doesn't make the AP ele "painfully weak." You're just not slotting the other skills or using the build correctly if its so weak for you.

Premium Unleaded · May 17, 2012, 03:18 PM // 15:18

If you've read a couple of the talk pages on various builds, it's becomes blindly obvious that there's a lot of drama/'politics' (lol) going and people often downvote good bars or upvote crap just because of it or just to take the piss.

Wielder Of Magic · May 17, 2012, 03:37 PM // 15:37

And this is exactly why you should not take anything posted on pvx to seriously.
Its a bunch of idiots that have no clue about how to play this game yet act like they are the Gods of GW, while in essence they run crappy or sub optimal bullshit at best.

AP eles are pretty solid, and deserve a minimum of a 'good' rating.

Then again, most people know by now that PvX is inhabited by idiots, so whats new.

Premium Unleaded · May 17, 2012, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Most of the pvp bars are, for the most part, fairly legit because there is a moderately reliable process of vetting them, so bs votes for those tend to be spotted and deleted more quickly.
But the pve side is often a joke.

HigherMinion · May 18, 2012, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Instead of arguing why PvX is bad, how about the topic of AP ele? Are their reasons valid? Does Rodgort's or SF really deal enough damage to single targets to challenge AP?

Life Bringing · May 19, 2012, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Too many people on the bandwagon to save it now tbh. People dont realize how much damage AP->ymlad->fh->tab->repeat does after your team's main aoe hits or how big of a deal sniping out monks in HM areas that are actually full of decent healers is

HigherMinion · May 19, 2012, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Too many people on the bandwagon to save it now tbh. People dont realize how much damage AP->ymlad->fh->tab->repeat does after your team's main aoe hits or how big of a deal sniping out monks in HM areas that are actually full of decent healers is

Correction, two people don't realise. The rest are just circlejerking.

Gabs88 · May 19, 2012, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Instead of arguing why PvX is bad, how about the topic of AP ele? Are their reasons valid? Does Rodgort's or SF really deal enough damage to single targets to challenge AP?

Meh, the retarded community over at GWPVX.com deserves some attention. Theres so many bad players pretending to be bigshots there it's not even funny, and only Toraen and a handful (literraly) of others to maintain sanity.

The fact that they voted down one of the very best builds in the entire game speaks for itself. And it's not the first time.

HigherMinion · May 19, 2012, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Maybe it just needs an influx of Guru members to fix it. If there is more Guru community and sane editors, circle-jerking can't happen as easily

gogo make accounts!

wildclaw · May 19, 2012, 07:11 AM // 07:11

The rating system at gwpvx is so obviously broken. Just looking at the rating page as a human and you can immediately see that it is a 5-4.5 build. And yet because of a few trolls it is currently rated below 3.75. For example, one of the main downraters and troll commenters are They. This is the person that made the comment "Majority of eles I see playing PvE are running E/Mo, Shockwave, or Starburst." while editing the page. Which shows that he

* Hasn't run the build himself.
* Disregards the majority of players that solo with 7 heroes.

I do think the AP ele page is rather badly setup though. There are so many flaws on it. First of all, why the Attunement skills in the recommendations? The vast majority of energy you use won't be for elemental skills. I can see it useful for the Earth setup, but not for any other. And even for the earth setup it is probably overkill if you use GoLE properly.

Secondly, the air build is a specialty build that is only really optimal for team that need cracked armor and or running content with few mobs.

Thirdly, the basic fire build should be GoS+MS+GoLE+FB/RI. There is no reason to run two damage only AoE spells with AP unless you are afraid of getting your AP dispelled (which is a defeatist mindset). The whole point of the AP build is to score frequent cooldown resets.

Jeydra · May 19, 2012, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Instead of arguing why PvX is bad, how about the topic of AP ele? Are their reasons valid? Does Rodgort's or SF really deal enough damage to single targets to challenge AP?

SF is not good for damage while you can run Rodgort's with AP, don't get it. Whoever came up with the idea that AP Eles can only be of the Air variant ... ? And that AP Air Eles will be casting more Lightning Orbs than Chain Lightnings, too.

HigherMinion · May 19, 2012, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

SF is not good for damage while you can run Rodgort's with AP, don't get it. Whoever came up with the idea that AP Eles can only be of the Air variant ... ? And that AP Air Eles will be casting more Lightning Orbs than Chain Lightnings, too.

No one is advocating only the Air version, as far as I can see. All three/four play styles are on the page, holding the energy storage version because it's more awkward to show on the combined page.

I agree SF sucks, but the argument is Rodgort's is on a short enough recharge not to require AP, but EA would be superior. Also that 4040's/ebsow can be used to free your elite slot. But the PvE skills can't be spammed and shouts aren't affected at all, so meh.

Jeydra · May 19, 2012, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Yeah well ask for a bar so I can try it myself and see just how good it is in comparison, simple as that.

If this is it, which optionals should I go for? http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:E/any_EA_Fire_Nuker EBSoW and Air of Superiority?

Xenomortis · May 19, 2012, 11:40 AM // 11:40

So long as that SF build doesn't reach 'great', I'm happy. Yes I'm petty.
But perhaps now you can feel smugly superior whilst using any AP build.

More seriously:

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Instead of arguing why PvX is bad, how about the topic of AP ele? Are their reasons valid? Does Rodgort's or SF really deal enough damage to single targets to challenge AP?

Whilst the OP was not most conducive to that, if the thread doesn't get off PvX, it'll be locked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

Meh, the retarded community over at GWPVX.com deserves some attention. Theres so many bad players pretending to be bigshots there it's not even funny, and only Toraen and a handful (literraly) of others to maintain sanity.

The fact that they voted down one of the very best builds in the entire game speaks for itself. And it's not the first time.

This may or may not be an appropriate place to discuss the state of the PvX community, but nothing constructive will come of it and the problems over there are very obvious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

What makes Elemental Attunement fire better/worse for a human? (afaik, that's the only contender)

fyi, main reason to kill AP ele is:
1.AP can be replaced easily with AoS, Glyph of Renewal or 4040/EBSoW.
2.single-target damage blows since HM update.

Nothing makes EA Fire better than AP Fire. It is perhaps easier to run, with EA giving much better energy returns and an AP bar struggling to use the skill as often as it's recharged, but an AP bar quite honestly has better skills to use.
AP outclasses GoR, AoS is trash and a 40/40 isn't even something you can discuss in this context.
Single target damage vs AoE isn't too much of a consideration; we have Rodgort's and EVAS we can chain, with YMLAD, FH and possibly even an AoE Fireball to spike targets down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildclaw

Thirdly, the basic fire build should be GoS+MS+GoLE+FB/RI. There is no reason to run two damage only AoE spells with AP unless you are afraid of getting your AP dispelled (which is a defeatist mindset). The whole point of the AP build is to score frequent cooldown resets.

I've run this, several times. It's shit.* At least it's beaten by all the other AP builds I've run.
The problems are fairly obvious if you take a few seconds to think about it and a fear of missing AP isn't what motivates the current choice of skills on AP bars.
Hint: You cannot run two 25e skills on an AP bar.

*Whilst that judgement was made before the Ele update, Meteor Shower wasn't actually improved much by that update; Rodgort's Invocation was. RI was mostly held back by its energy cost and weakened damage output; we can cope with energy inefficiency if the damage is worthwhile. Damage was never the main concern with MS and its massive costs were in no way alleviated by the updated.

HigherMinion · May 19, 2012, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

More seriously:

Whilst the OP was not most conducive to that, if the thread doesn't get off PvX, it'll be locked.

Sorry about the malice-injected OP, it was just annoying.

Something I find odd is they actually think Anet did such a good job fixing PvE with the Hard Mode update... I thought it was established it was a blanket nerf?

wildclaw · May 19, 2012, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I've run this, several times. It's shit.* At least it's beaten by all the other AP builds I've run.

Running AP Ele without one of the required skills is not a good idea as demonstrated by your video. And no, Fire Attunement is not a replacement for GoLE, not by a long shot.

Xenomortis · May 19, 2012, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildclaw

Running AP Ele without one of the required skills is not a good idea as demonstrated by your video. And no, Fire Attunement is not a replacement for GoLE, not by a long shot.

I know I should have run GoLE on that bar, but it doesn't significantly improve things (I have used it, just after that video was made); you can use EVAS a little more often but you're still pressed hard for energy.